How To Better Serve New Members and the LQ Community?

Based on feedback and further observation, it's come to our attention that an increasing number of new members seem to be drive-by posters who are not interested in becoming part of the community or putting effort into helping the current LQ community help them. This often results in poorly worded, low quality questions from posters who do not respond when asked for additional information. Over time this can lead to burnout for long time members, and can also lead to a poor experience for well intentioned new members who may just need a friendly pointer on how to ask a question. Do current members think this is an issue? And if so, what can we do to provide a solid, friendly introduction to new members while keeping burnout and poor quality questions to a minimum?

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...#faq_lqwelcome was created as an initial response to this, but I think we can do better. One idea I had was to identify the top two or three problematic thread types from these kind of new members. From there was can either come up with a well worded, friendly and educational response tailored to each, or make sure each is addressed adequately in the FAQ entry and then come up with a single response. With those canned responses, we would recruit a small number of LQ members who are willing to patrol new threads and use the canned responses appropriately. This should serve to onboard well intentioned new members in a friendly way that acclimates them to the LQ culture, while weeding out the members who are not interested in actually participating in the community (which should reduce burnout substantially). I'd be interested in whether members think this is a good idea, have an alternative idea/suggestion or have any general feedback on the topic.

--jeremy

hi, since many of these 1st-time posters ask questions that arent coherent, maybe a bugzilla type of form would be adequate in the newbie sub-forum where the posters are forced to type in sections pertaining to what the issue is, what the expected result was, what the actual result is, what was tried, and a relevant screen-cap as well as info about distro/version / software/hardware version / ...

but then the responders would be more like defect analysis and may have the undesirable effect of more burnout.

just a thought.

e.g.: stuff like this:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ne-4175545957/
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ver-4175544978
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ike-4175546818

Originally Posted by jeremy This often results in poorly worded, low quality questions from posters who do not respond when asked for additional information.

I suspect that a non-zero percentage of those are bots. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell the difference these days.

Originally Posted by schneidz hi, since many of these 1st-time posters ask questions that arent coherent, maybe a bugzilla type of form would be adequate in the newbie sub-forum where the posters are forced to type in sections pertaining to what the issue is, what the expected result was, what the actual result is, what was tried, and a relevant screen-cap as well as info about distro/version / software/hardware version / ...

I think this probably goes too far and makes it too difficult to make a first post (which makes it significantly less likely it will happen) while still leaving a large possibility for the type of question we're trying to cut down on.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by dugan I suspect that a non-zero percentage of those are bots. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell the difference these days.

I'm sure the percentage is non-zero, but this is an area we've improved on greatly and I don't think it's currently a significant contributor to the issue this thread aims to address. That said, it remains an area we'll continue to focus and improve on.

--jeremy

I think we need to answer everyone (but bots), so that is not a question for me. That means we will get poorly worded, low quality questions. In that cases we have two choices: either give a poor, low quality answer or explain how to ask and what is the problem with that question at all. In general, all around us (not at LQ, but everywhere at any job or school) this or similar thing happens too.

I'm sorry, but I think this was a poorly formatted answer and I cannot explain it better, but I think it does not depend on you, on members or on me. That is the real world. And I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

We have to put ourselves in the newbies position, they don't know how to post a 'correct' question, because they are new to forums.

We can point them to 'howto's, but if they are more than a sentence or two they will be skipped.
I don't think there is an easy way to solve this problem.

I've been around a couple of years answering newbie & not so newbie questions, & whilst 'we' see these questions time & again, it is the first time for said newbie.

I think we just have to remind ourselves that everyone started out not knowing how things work; & to those who are prepared to answer questions, please be civil at all times. (If you're having a bad day, please don't bother replying.)

There have been posts from some members 'shouting' at the newbie - this should not happen - ever!

Originally Posted by fatmac We have to put ourselves in the newbies position, they don't know how to post a 'correct' question, because they are new to forums.

Giving them friendly advice on how to answer a question helps everyone, but ...

... whilst 'we' see these questions time & again, it is the first time for said newbie.

That suggests the person did not search the forum to see if the question has been asked before. Perhaps I am unusual, but when I discovered fora, one of the first things I noticed was the search feature. Of course, I usually did not (and occasionally still do not) know how to correctly phrase a search enquiry. When it comes to often-asked questions, I am more inclined to get involved if the poster states they searched the forum but did not find an answer, than if they did not. So in these cases, friendly advice should include searching the board before posting a question.

A few years back, I worked in technical support for a company that developed a CRM for car sales dealerships where I answered mundane questions for computer illiterate people all day long. Luckily the bulk of the most frustrating issues were filtered by 2 lower tiers of customer support representatives. I find many of these LQ Newbie posts and the Zero-reply posts to be very similar to the issues I came across.

There isn't a real solution to this problem. This problem exists in all aspects of technical support- whether it's your grandma, a family friend, or some guy/girl from some other part of the country/world. The frustrating part is that most of the questions I received were easily answered by reading the provided documentation for whichever topic in question. The hardest part is remaining courteous and professional when answering.

I find that when I am having a bad day, I struggle to provide positive and informative feedback. The best way to avoid this is just not to post in that thread and leave it to someone else who will likely be able to help more effectively.

When I am in good spirits I will tackle the zero-reply section of the forums, as well as LQ Newbie. I find that often the best way to answer is to use basic terms when wording a response that dictates the official documentation in a way that the OP can understand. 99% of the time this works. However, there is always that one person who chooses not to read or apply the solution provided. Sometimes there is even a language barrier preventing said individual from understanding exactly what it is you are recommending as a solution.

Soon to be flooded with stepping stones, (more so,) perhaps an incentive program LQ T-shirts?

i think LQ is already doing a lot to alleviate the situation.

if i see threads like the examples in post #2, a few thoughts come to mind:

• this is not a bot. but someone thinks that they're entitled to an answer, even without asking a proper question - helpdesk mentality. as someone else pointed out, that's the world we live in. a disclaimer at the top of every page, maybe integrated into this image might help. sth like "Life's a two-way-street" or "help us to help you" or "things to do before posting a question" or "Linux depends on YOUR contribution" ...
• some forums put some restrictions on you until your postcount went up a little. people complain about it all the time, but i think it's a good way to remind the newbie that s/he is still a newbie, even if the restriction is somewhat random.
• archlinux forums always come to mind as an example for extremely efficient forum management - to the point of becoming a sort of walled garden or at least not attractive to newcomers or even people who like the social aspects of a forum. it's something to look at and learn from in both ways: how to do it, and how not to do it.
• re burnout: esp. on LQ i always see that about 5 of those 1000+ posters answer a thread like that ("how connect samsung phone"), where 1 answer would have sufficed. why? wait for OP to come back. thankfully, it is possible to subscribe to threads without posting to them, a feature i sorely miss on other forums!

i think LQ is doing a great job in the Linux world.
think about it, the biggest distro-agnostic linux forum.

Originally Posted by jeremy One idea I had was to identify the top two or three problematic thread types from these kind of new members. From there was can either come up with a well worded, friendly and educational response tailored to each, or make sure each is addressed adequately in the FAQ entry and then come up with a single response.

I like the sound of this. It's difficult to say "I really want to help but, please, educate yourself a little and provide some information... " without beginning to sound testy. I know I can be guilty of being a little short for that reason though I do try to be positive also.

Originally Posted by fatmac We have to put ourselves in the newbies position, they don't know how to post a 'correct' question, because they are new to forums.

Originally Posted by mralk3 A few years back, I worked in technical support for a company that developed a CRM for car sales dealerships where I answered mundane questions for computer illiterate people all day long. Luckily the bulk of the most frustrating issues were filtered by 2 lower tiers of customer support representatives. I find many of these LQ Newbie posts and the Zero-reply posts to be very similar to the issues I came across.

I think it's important to make a distinction between members who register and post poor questions because they are new to Linux, new to fora, new to the Internet, etc. vs. those who sign up and have absolutely no intention of participating at LQ, have no interest in learning, want to treat LQ like a helpdesk, are not willing to follow-up or help us help them. The former we very much want to educate and guide in a friendly welcoming manner. The latter are what can cause burnout IMHO.

Originally Posted by fatmac There have been posts from some members 'shouting' at the newbie - this should not happen - ever!

I very much agree.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by 273 I like the sound of this. It's difficult to say "I really want to help but, please, educate yourself a little and provide some information... " without beginning to sound testy. I know I can be guilty of being a little short for that reason though I do try to be positive also.

This is one reason I think canned responses could help.

--jeremy

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the feedback (please keep it coming) and am once again impressed with the attitude and dedication of LQ members.

--jeremy